They used to call it 'white line fever'.
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"This bloke was quiet, wouldn't take to anybody, a real timid person, but as soon as he crossed that line, he was absolutely aggressive and he was abusing, he used to swear at players and everything.
"Some players don't learn, something has to be done."
'White line fever'. That's what current Group 10 and career referee, Terry Sahyoun calls it when he recalled a nearly 30-year long career pockmarked with abuse, assault and threats from players, management and spectators.
Sporting a Cronulla Sharks tattoo on his chest, Terry is passionate about his love of sport and says something needs to change if another generation of referees is to succeed in rugby league or most other regional spectator sports.
Speaking with the Mudgee Guardian, Terry and his wife Lyn recalled some of the most memorable and affecting moments in his career, having refereed hundreds of matches in multiple codes around Australia.
"I've had everything from being elbowed, abused, threatened. I had people sitting in front of my car waiting for me to leave the grounds - at Rickwood Park over at St George - and I had to stay at the canteen for almost two hours helping them to pack up because this guy just wouldn't leave," Terry said.
"I was talking to an ex-referee in the tunnel of Kandos Waratah Park and one player just went past and elbowed me right in the ribcage. The other referee saw it and just gave me a blank look."
Terry's wife Lyn Sayhoun recalled one match in 1998 when Terry sent a player off for fighting. Later on, that player charged toward Lyn and her then still infant twins.
"My twins who are now 22, were babies-in-arms and he knew who I was and he knew who I was sitting with and he took one look at us, his eyes were bulging out of his head. We had no chance of moving and it took four trainers to take him away," Lyn said.
Despite these setbacks, Terry still maintains his passion for refereeing and finds a way to see the funny side.
"I used to be a cricket umpire as well, I was umpiring a cricket match - a b-grade match - it was getting late in the game, they were bowling bouncers trying to knock each other out and then they started sledging," Terry said.
"I said 'guys calm down' and some idiot from the hill yells out 'why don't you put him in the sin bin?'. and I've looked at the cap and it was a Heathcote Rams cap, and it was this bloke from the reserve grade side I used to referee. So whether it was cricket or football you couldn't escape it," Terry laughed.
'It's always the ref's fault'
Terry said there is a culture among many players and spectators that it's the referee's fault if the game doesn't go their way.
"Across the board, it doesn't matter what district you are, it's got this element that they for their losses - or whatever the case may be - they blame the referee," Terry said.
"I've had lunatics - I was doing a night match in Lithgow years ago where they guy picked the ball up and threw the ball and hit the props head - I said 'mate, I'm gonna put you on the bench' and his reply was 'you can't do a thing to me', that's the attitude you get."
Terry says one of the key changes he would make is holding players and teams to account for their actions with harsher penalties.
"At a final last year I was going up to the change room - my touch judge copped a hell of lot of abuse - then I copped a lot because I intervened - on the day they just want to attack you, they don't care what the protocol is," he said.
"We [referees] go by protocol. Because if I did something outside of that protocol I get my ass kicked and it should be the same thing for players, like we're not really backed by judiciaries anywhere.
"In Sydney the judiciaries are a lot harder. You might take a person in for an offence they might cop 4 to 8 weeks. Up here they'd be lucky to get one, it does us no good."
Changing the culture
Terry thinks a culture of blaming the referee and a lack of appropriate consequences for players, teams and spectators is discouraging younger potential referees from seeing their early years through as his generation ages out of the profession.
"You have these players, they'll be the voice going all game throwing abuse at you across the field and it's very hard especially in senior football where you're focusing absolutely on the game and focusing the directions - you're trying to read it, where the players are going and all that - you've got this element trying to sidetrack you all the time," Terry said.
I reckon we've virtually halved our senior referees over the last five years because no one wants to referee anymore.
"It makes it hard for us, but it makes it harder for juniors coming up. You normally try them on the touch line to see how they perform in senior football and if they see that going, how the hell are we going to get junior referees coming into seniors over the next year.
"I reckon we've virtually halved our senior referees over the last five years because no one wants to referee anymore.
"You bump into young kids on the street or at another sport. And you ask if they're refereeing next year and they say 'no, I haven't got time'. That's because they've seen what it's like, they know they're not going to get much support. We're trying to attract young referees, but you can't."
A look at management
Terry has been able to think a lot about what can be done to help change the way games are managed in regional competitions. He said management in city games are more focused on ground management.
"The way I see it is...if they [a player] can get away with playing up they'll go 'I'll try it the next step next week', and they keep taking it further. Or they're a travelling team and they go to another ground, they'll try it there," Terry said.
"The thing is in Sydney I've noticed was ground management, they always had somebody from their league - one of them or one of the executives was always at the ground they'd just appear out of nowhere.
"They monitored the ground and they used to fine the clubs for not doing the right thing. Like if the trainers weren't at the benchside like they were supposed to be they'd cop a $50 fine.
"I've had to stop games. I could hear the coach yelling abuse at me. So I stopped the game, I said 'mate, go outside the ground I don't want to hear you anymore.' He held up the game for 4 to 5 minutes before somebody got rid of him. It was affecting the players, they were responding to what he was saying and it became difficult in my position to control them.
"Spectators are always going to have a bit of passion - 'go Sharks', 'go Dragons', whatever, but when people come and start abusing you because their team has been on the backfoot for whatever reason they blame you, that element has to stop.
"I'd like to see an official there once every so often to see what what everybody's putting up with.
"Some structure has to be put there. I'm not big on administration when it comes to clubs and all that but I feel that something like that's got to be done.
"Rugby league is dying in the country, that could be through the violence or people not enjoying it because people like to turn up and watch a game without somebody hurling abuse."